1. ODSC rides are planned with specific Covid-19 restrictions
  1. 2wheeljake

    2wheeljake ODSC-OFTR Member

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    Hi all
    Just picked up a GPSMap 78 from GPSCity and set it up on my bike with power cord hooked up directly to the battery (in-line fuse included in wiring harness).

    Gps is new to me, but I've figured out how to install City Nav on a 16GB microsd card, can navigate with maps, have changed setup according to suggestions at DualSport West (found link on ADVRider: http://www.dualsportwest.com/Gps/GpsOverview)

    I have been using it on my dl1000 riding around streets to get used to it- all good so far until I loaded Bethany Big Bike ride gpx files from my Basecamp program - today I went out and tried to navigate to the start of 1st leg BBB route 1 and it worked like a charm - navigated to route, followed it to end, selected stop navigation - all good. After a break, selected 1st leg BBB and followed route without problem to end.

    The problem: When I select 2nd leg BBB route the gps finds the route, shows the waypoints, then shuts itself off.
    After trying this several times, I tried to navigate to 1st leg BBB and it then shut itself down in the same manner.

    Tried turning the unit off, then on again, shutting down and removing power and batteries, all to no avail. GPS works for maps and navigation and could then also load 1st leg BBB, but still shut itself off when trying to access this other route.

    I noticed that the 2nd leg route had some gaps in it where there were road allowances not shown on the map - could this be confusing the GPS?

    I considered maybe the file was corrupt and will be learning how to remove file and re-load it from Basecamp - however I'm surprised to be having this problem as I previously downloaded the 2nd Leg BBB route from Basecamp (same file) onto a friend's Nuvi GPS and navigated it with the car without problem.

    Any thoughts? I've heard about these units shutting themselves off (thought by some to be intermittant power issues, but is does it with bike battery power and with batteries, also it is a new unit and the batteries fit quite snug - it is also doing this while stationary or while riding...and navigating home with just Map view while continuing ride around Rice lake for the next 2 hrs the unit never shut off like this again - until I tried to access BBB 2...

    Sorry for the long message - just trying to figure this whole thing out, and it is all new to me...
    Jake
  2. Visser

    Visser Limited User

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    I also use a 78 (as well as an Oregon 450) and for both of them I've had them shut-off with certain routes under different circumstances. Often it appears to happen when the route doesn't jive with the maps the GPS is calculating the route based on.

    If the route has a lot of waypoints, one option could be to set the GPS to route directly instead of on road therefore avoiding the calculation issue, however, if the route does not have a lot of waypoints, this likely won't work out well as it will not tell you where to turn, rather just the direction to the next point which may not co-inside.

    The solution that I use for routes that go off-road is that I open the route in basecamp, right click, and convert to track... then I just change the track colour to something visible on the device and follow the line. This seems to work out decently, but does not give any calculations such as distance to next turn, time until end, etc, etc...

    I am curious to hear if there are any other solutions to try though... maybe there is a better way?
  3. 2wheeljake

    2wheeljake ODSC-OFTR Member

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    Thanks, so many new things to learn! I gave up on this file and deleted it from the unit, but then loaded Creemore ride and found a route that presented a similar problem - this time however the unit notified me that there were too many waypoints - changing Lock On Road to No resolved this issue...I also noticed that if I add a route to the gps it puts all the waypoints together with all the other waypoints already existing int he unit - do you somehow create subfolders, or do you need to clear all the previous data first?
    Sorry for all the questions...and thanks for your advice...I hope to figure it all out and be a self-sufficient gps operator soon!!!
    Jake
  4. 2wheeljake

    2wheeljake ODSC-OFTR Member

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    Reloaded Bethany route after converting it to track, turned off Lock on Road and recalculate route - still crashing - I think I will just give up on this file...I was hoping to get it to work because it was near home and therefore could go out and practice with it...maybe I can find another local route...trying to work through tutorial for basecamp...I'm sure my problem is a serious lack of experience with gps!!!
    Jake
  5. Visser

    Visser Limited User

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    If you converted the route to a track, then don't try to calculate the route. If you get a chance before it crashes again, hit Find, then Stop Navigation and just follow the line on the map.

    As far as waypoints being grouped with other waypoints... I have no idea, never seen that happen. I usually delete the routes with many waypoints (or never put them on the GPS to begin with) as I don't like having 100's of waypoints on my unit. That is partially why I navigate using tracks... no need for waypoints.
  6. DualSport

    DualSport Ride Organizer

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    I think the problem you are having is to do with the method of routing on your GPS.

    Newer GPS can be confusing as they default to "Follow Roads" routing, but most Dual Sport Rides use "roads" that are NOT on your GPS map, so you MUST change routing method to DIRECT (or OFF-ROAD). The route will then show as a series of straight lines.

    Selecting the wrong routing method can cause a further problem as "Follow Road" routing only allows 50 waypoints in the route so you get an error if the route has more than this. "Direct" routing allows 250 way points. (Other models have different limits).

    I set my GPS routing method to "Prompted" so whenever I start Navigating, I can choose Direct for a DS Router or Follow Roads if I'm looking for a gas station.

    The older 60/76's used to show an error message if the route had too many points but my Montana acts like your 78S, and crashes if the route has more than 50 points and it's set to "Follow Roads".

    This wasn't a problem when we first started with GPS rides in 2002 as most GPS (Etrex, etc) only did DIRECT routing but they didn't call it that - it was just "Navigating"! When the next generation of GPS arrived (GPS V) they could follow the roads on the map OR go point-to-point. Unfortunately, Garmin compounded this problem when they introduced Profiles - especially as the ATV/Off-Road profile actually uses "Follow Roads" routing and will NOT work for true off-road riding.

    Bob
  7. 2wheeljake

    2wheeljake ODSC-OFTR Member

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    Thanks for all of the input. GPS is completely new to me, and I am slowly becoming accustomed to it.

    I have routing set to:
    Activity: Motorcycle Driving
    Calculation Method: Prompted
    Lock on Road: No
    Avoidance setup: None selected
    Off Route Recalculation: None

    I am expecting that this will create the least number of conflicts.

    I was using waypoints because that was how the Bethany route file was presented - I thought the idea was to download the route and then "find route" and follow it. This route consisted of a large number of connected waypoints - when I couldn't access the route on the road, I tried just using the map with the waypoints - but because I hadn't converted it to a track (I now know how to do this at home), I eventually was unable to navigate the route - since I couldn't find the next waypoint - if I had converted it to a track before the ride, I probably would have been more successful (is this what everyone would have done to follow the road route for the big bike ride?)

    Selecting Lock on Road in route setup to "No" did not stop the gps from crashing with the 2ndleg BBB file - only converting it to a track seems to work. Funny, but there was no conflict with the route witht the Nuvi - it just worked (I assume this follows roads?)

    Uploading the route to my gps, along with a couple of other routes shows all the data - waypoints, routes, fuel stops etc in one drop down list in basecamp - so if several routes are included on my data card, or in the internal memory, all the data points are shown in one massive list - I was wondering if this was confusing the unit, but I think it was only confusing me!!!

    I am going to keep it simple and delete each route I've used prior to downloading another and therefore will only have one route on my gps when I am trying to navigate on the road for now. Further, I have used the drag and drop method to move a route from My Collection to my data card (or internal memory) - this lists all the individual data points, but not the name of the file - and so I can only delete a route by deleting each individual waypoint/item in this drop-down list in Basecamp - so if all the points are mixed up together, how do you delete one route? I have been deleting everything, then re-adding the route I want. There must be a better way to do this in Basecamp. - so much to learn!!!

    There are so many aspects to this that seem counter-intuitive - I'm starting to think Calculus is much easier than GPS navigation!!!

    All in good time...

    Jake
  8. hardman

    hardman ODSC-OFTR Member

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    Jake

    I also have a GPS 78s (new to me this year) and have had no issues what so ever. On an earlier ride this year with ODSC on the Blue Water DS ride, one of the routes was larger than 49 waypoints, so it would not display and just gave me an error message "warning more than 49 waypoints", but it did not crash. I now always check routes from other sources on Base Camp and if they are larger than 49 waypoints, they can be converted to tracks.

    Your issue almost sounds like the same problem I had with my previous Etrex unit as it would shut down due to excessive vibration from the bike revving too high at times ( SD cards don't like vibrations). I've also seen my previous Etrex unit take up to 10 minutes or more trying to calculate a route I entered thinking that it was most likely going to crash, but it eventually it figured it out (I just pull out a Colt and have smoke while waiting) .

    Another thing which is annoying still on both my last unit and the new 78s is after loading a new route and riding it, occasionally the gps wants to take you on a short cut. It wants to re-route you to the highway, but if I stick with the route I've create it than re-calculates back. Its definitely annoying as some times I need to stop and pull out the map to see if the gps is doing its own thing or following my route.

    Hope you get your issue figured out, best to keep trying different settings and also Bob is a great source of information when it comes to gps. He has helped me many times with issues I could not understand.

    Hardy
  9. 2wheeljake

    2wheeljake ODSC-OFTR Member

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    Thanks. The unit shuts down when loading the one particular file while sitting still and holding it in my hand - and when it was crashing on the bike, loading a different route did not cause it to crash, so I don't think it is the vibrations. Converting it to a track did the trick. I am also working through a Basecamp tutorial online which I found on the AdvRider site - really worth checking out for anyone wanting to get familiar with basecamp - found at the New England Rider's website: http://www.newenglandriders.org/Learn_BaseCamp.htm , courtesy of Ed Conde...so I am learning how to modify maps, routes, etc., as I gain a greater understanding of the issues I can then modify a given file to avoid problems (and maybe even be able to sound as smart as the rest of you when I explain it all to someone else!)

    Hoping this is not all a hardware issue, but really looks like it is not...

    Thanks again for everyone's patience and help with my multitude of questions...

    Next time I get a chance to ride with another experienced gps rider I might beg for a little hands on tutorial...maybe in exchange for a coffee and donut or a little lunch somewhere...

    Cheers

    Jake
  10. 2wheeljake

    2wheeljake ODSC-OFTR Member

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    One further thought - I've heard mention of vibration issues with gps units before, and the Vstrom does vibrate a little more than usual especially with the lower gearing due to the sprocket swap I performed... looking at the sd card slot in the battery compartment the sd card just lies on the contacts and then a little metal piece just folds over the sd card and slides up - nothing clicks in - it appears it could easily slide down too (but maybe with batteries in it is held securely in place - hard to tell) - any issues with putting a folded piece of paper (maybe waxed paper) over this and under the batteries to take up any extra space and insure less possible movement of the card? (I'm wondering about heat issues affecting the sd card) any thoughts?

    Jake
  11. michel mondou

    michel mondou ODSC President

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    Before I ran the GPS on bike power (just batteries), my GPS used to shut down because of vibrations on the KLR. I stuffed a small piece of foam inside the battery compartment and it solved the problem. Good luck with that Jake.

    Michel
  12. 2wheeljake

    2wheeljake ODSC-OFTR Member

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    A piece of foam might be a good idea if I want to run the unit without batteries too!
    Thanks

    Jake
  13. hardman

    hardman ODSC-OFTR Member

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    I picked up one of those soft rubber mats for laying your smart phone on in the car, it keeps them from sliding around. My RAM mount has a diamond shaped flange with 2 small bolts, so I separated the flange from the mount and cut a piece of the rubber mat which I than sandwiched in between. The soft rubber works well in damping any vibrations from the bike to the Garmin unit.

    Hardy
  14. hardman

    hardman ODSC-OFTR Member

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    Correction!

    I should of said the rubber is sandwiched between the flange and gps cradle of the RAM mount.
  15. 2wheeljake

    2wheeljake ODSC-OFTR Member

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    Thanks - just found a use for one of those old inner tubes I saved!
    Jake
  16. hardman

    hardman ODSC-OFTR Member

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    Jake

    I tried a piece of old inner tube the first time, but it was not soft enough. Those smart phone pads are a soft gelled type rubber and seams to work well for me.
  17. DualSport

    DualSport Ride Organizer

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    It won't !!!!

    You must set the Activity to "DIRECT ROUTING" if you are riding a Dual Sport Route that uses off-road sections which are not on you GPS map.

    "Motorcycle Driving" - and ALL the other Activities except Direct Routing - are "Follow Road"-type activities that need a road on the map and limit waypoints to 50. Even the "ATV/Off-Road" activity needs roads on the map, so it won't work either.

    You MUST set Routing Method or Activity or Navigation or whatever your particular GPS model names this feature to DIRECT, OFF-ROAD, STRAIGHT-LINE, POINT-TO-POINT or whatever similar principle of routing is offered for the Creemore, Bethany, Rally Connex, etc type rides.

    Bob
  18. 2wheeljake

    2wheeljake ODSC-OFTR Member

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    Got it! I didn't notice that option in the list, but now I have found it. Thanks!!!
    Jake
  19. DualSport

    DualSport Ride Organizer

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    Sorry, Hardy, I didn't see this post earlier.

    Your problem is EXACTLY the same as Jake's - you don't have your GPS set to DIRECT ROUTING.

    BTW, you generally CANNOT convert a (good) dual sport route to a track in Basecamp as it would (should?) have been created in DIRECT routing mode so it will be a series of straight lines between successive waypoints. If it displays correctly in Basecamp then the route must only use roads on the GPS maps, and most GPS rides use sections that have no underlying map.

    Bob
  20. hardman

    hardman ODSC-OFTR Member

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    Thanks Bob!