Where do we grow from here?

No on the trail rides. I don't really have the time, and prefer to ride by myself in the woods.

I was going to run some hare scrambles this year, and even bought a bike for it, but a change in shifts put an end to that. I plan to next season.

My point in the last post was, why would I join? I have no idea what they do, but I do see trails going away, and not much being done about it. Do I want to pay for that?

Have you ever ridden Simcoe County or the Ganny? OFTR and local clubs have put alot of effort into keeping these places open for riding and signing trails, doing maintenance, building parking areas, etc. This all costs money that comes from memberships. Without that money we would not have these places to ride. I'll gladly pay $100 per year to support an organization that fights the good fight for us riders. What good is a $7000 bike with no place to ride?

Hey Suprf1y,

It should be pointed out that an OFTR membership allows you to ride in Simcoe County Forrest, Northhumberland Forrest, Somerville Forrest and Larose Forrest. In fact, you cannot ride in those areas without an OFTR membership.

Actually the OFTR has been doing great stuff in putting together land use agreements for these and other areas. It is now fully legal for an OFTR member to ride in the above mentioned areas and you can do so without having to buy a permit like at the Ganny. Before the OFTR forged the LUAs with these areas, riding in them was not fully legal. People did it, but strictly speaking, it was a violation to do so. I remember being asked to leave the SCF by the OPP. No charges were laid, but I still had to move on. Now with the LUAs in effect, we can ride. No ifs, ands or buts.

They could do a lot more if they had more support. Your support. Think of it like the OFSC was in the ‘70s. One step at a time and the more they have to work with the quicker they can work. More members means a bigger voice, a bigger war chest and more clout. If we had the kind of membership the OFSC has, I imagine we could go for 1,500 km trail rides. Is this something worth working for?

I can tell you the OFTR has won a lot of battles. Yeah, there have been some closures, but you can be absolutely sure of two tings. First, if the OFTR was not here, there would have been many more closures. Second, if they had more support, there would have been a lot fewer closures. Why not give Steve Topham over at the KW Cyclesport club a call and ask him what you could get out of being a member? You never know, your $80 a year might bring you a lot of value and new experiences.

Sorry Suprf1y, just realized you are in SW Ontario and not necessarily close to KW. For some reason I thought you were in Cambridge. In any case, there are a lot of clubs in SW Ontario, or there is the ODSC. Lost of ways to help out the sport you love. :cheers:

I'm not sure we really want this thread to turn into a recruiting thread, although thats not a bad idea for thread either, because there are tons of good reasons why even MX guys would / should be involved. However, Suprf1y was nice enough to offer his opinions, so lets just thank him for his input and move on with our great ideas

Agreed ... he asked, so I answered ... force of habit.

BillO asked for input, I gave it.

Not sure if you understood what I was trying to say.
Although I don't ride those areas, I ride a lot, and have no idea what OFTR does.
Forcing it on people is the wrong thing to do. Telling them why they want to join is not.

I was going to comment in the other thread before it was closed. IMO, XC is just like MX now, with too many choices for the number of riders. Can you imagine how awesome our MX series could be, if one or two organizations ran the show? My club sometimes gets more riders than a CMRC event. Is that right?

Ron,
Is the OFSC a reasonable / strong analogy? If the OFTR offered me access to as much local / contiguous trail for dirtbikes as the the OFSC provides for sleds then I would be the first guy in line to pony up the cash.

Disclaimer: My comments are not a shot at the OFTR; I think they do a great job within the constraints they have to deal with.

Paul...I can't argue with your points.

I guess what I'm trying to say is how do we get past the "chicken or the egg" syndrome here?

I suspect many people hold your opinion on this...essentially..."give me more value for my money." Problem is the main source of money to produce the "value" comes from memberships. We need to find a way out of this loop.

Paul, that is their goal, but they need you even more now so that they can get there. How else would they do it without support from the riders? If this is what you really want, then you should be first in line now to pony up the dough and help them.

I understand your point Paul. However, the biggest constraint is lack of support. The only folks that can change that, without mandatory fees, are the ones that do not yet support them.

I'm not sure what it is. People do not seem to be making the connection. Yeah, they are willing to buy a membership if there is 4,000 km of contiguous trail to ride, but how do they think that will happen? Can they not see that it will take money and effort? This is the reason Ron and others are suggesting a mandatory fee. Because people do not seem to be able to appreciate or understand what this takes.

Thanks for your input on this Paul. If your situation is predominant, then that supports the argument for enforcing a mandatory fee.

Perhaps there is the opportunity to approach this from a different perspective. What if the OFTR were to lobby the government to restrict motorcycle access onto crown land trails to OFTR/Club members only? i.e. you not only need insurance and registration, but you need to be a member of the OFTR/Club as well.

That way, those that want to stick to private property (MX tracks, Burnt River, their own land…) do not have to pay.

I was hoping to continue the thread toward new ideas for acquiring land use agreements, but I think there is a need to address the value to all riders belonging to the OFTR (or similar).

Like Suprf1y mentioned most MX'ers don't lack riding areas, and honestly neither do most competition oriented off roaders. We know enough people with land that we can often organize rides at 2 or 3 places every week. All on privately owned land and all with enough change that it remains fun. Here is the catch, according to all by-laws in Ontario its still illegal to do so. Unless you're riding on your own land, and even then its sketchy whether its legal. I've been through the battles and I'm aware of the legalities. The point I made earlier about bringing Ontario Federation Of Agriculture OFA, into the fight was to make it legal for every rider mx or otherwise. In order to do that we need OFTR, the $15, the Pit, have both benefited from Kens work, from representation in council meetings, to letters written on behalf of said properties he has kept them open, albeit still under constant scrutiny.....

We need to change how land is permitted to be used in Ontario, in order to do that we need to approach the groups who own the land and appeal to what they need. Not what we need.

Unless you only ride on your own land or someone that you know, you have to pay to ride. Wether it's an SCR membership, Burnt River or Gopher Dunes day pass...you have to pay to ride.
Similarily, if you want to ride on the Michigan trail network or the Hatfield McKoy system, you need a permit. I think Bill is on the right track with making some sort of permit/membership mandatory to have motorized access to Crown land. Unfortunately, our government doesn't operate the same as in the States. Convincing them that this is a good idea would be futile. Unless there's something in it for them, politicians are hard to sway.
Like Superfly said, forcing a membership fee on a new bike purchase is a bad idea. My XM/Sirius trial was FREE with my car purchase. If I liked the value, I re-subscribed. Maybe the OFTR should give out free trial memberships to new bike purchasers?

I've ridden both those places, and I had no idea.
That's information that people like me need to know.

The free trial membership is the best idea I've seen yet.

The free trial membership sound good. I think it would help people learn who the OFTR is and what is out there. I see tons of bikes locally with no insurance , plates and no idea that they should have it. < so they say > When asked about the OFTR they also have no clue. Perhaps the free trial membership would help fight this.

It's all part and parcel of the same thing Rob, and leading in the right direction. The use agreements would be with the OFTR (or some such body) so membership acceptance is a big part of getting support to pursue the LUAs.

Speaking of acquiring new lands to ride on, there are a ton of huge hunt camps around. These are only used for short periods of the year by the hunters and are vacant most of the rest of the time. Use of these lands for us is an obvious benefit, so what do the hunters get out of it? Animals use trail systems themselves. They travel these trials to get to food sources and water. Off-road riders can create and maintain these trails for the hunters in exchange for a land use agreement. Then the hunters can use the trails to get around their property quietly and to set up stands near them to target game traveling the trails.

It would be nice to hear what the dealers have to say....why so quiet? I'd like to hear why it would be positive, negative for sales.

I think for dealers selling new bikes with membership, the dealer rate for the first year OFTR membership could be reduced. Then, hopefully the new rider will join in year two on his/her own at regular membership rates.

I like the tie in of "honorable mention" to dealers. They would love the advertising you would think.

I thought I would add my 2 cents. This is my first year with a D/S and I bought a membership as soon as I bought the bike.
I haven't come out to any club rides, but I would like to this coming year. I mostly ride by myself but joined b/c I recognize the need for a group like this.

I would like to see our membership cover the seguin trail ( I have 100 acres on it) as well as the ganny, -yes I'm willing to pay more for riding areas. I think it would also help to bring new members if their was a way to check out all(or more of) of the available riding areas in one forum - SCORRA has a nice set up on their forum.

About a month ago I ran into 2 riders on MX bikes in the Swift Rapids area, neither had plates, insurance, or memberships.
We talked in length about where we can/can't ride, and about the OFTR and why it's good to be a member. Their take was that there are too many places that we can't ride and they don't want any identification on their bikes for people to report them.

As far as the hunt camps - yes. I agree, I am a hunter, with land, and I am also familiar with crown land in the area of my camp. Problem - too many riders have left a bad taste in the mouths of locals. It only takes a couple of rogues to tear up someone's trails and they'll be closed for good. Rumor had it last year that our township was talking about banning ORMs. If nothing else this club is important just for putting responsible riders on display!

All of the issues raised in this thread were heavily discussed this weekend at the OFTR Presidents Council conference. Included was representation from several industry insiders.
I can't go into detail yet, but will be able to offer some insights in a few days.

Suprfly wrote:

There has been a lot of progress on OFTR & land initiatives in the last 4 years and there will continue to be going forward. The information about all that has been openly & regularly discussed and disseminated on sites such as this one, at events & on the OFTR site, etc. At this point that doesn't help folks that have no access or have never heard of the OFTR or any of the member clubs.
However, for someone that spends a significantly regular amount of time(320+ posts in over 3 years) on this particular site, I just have trouble buying the (quoted) argument laid out above.........but I digress.

Back to the Original topic-



BJ

When I come on here, I check the classified, and what appear to be tech related questions, and usually not much more. I don't even know where the ganny is