1. ODSC rides are planned with specific Covid-19 restrictions
  1. bkowal

    bkowal ODSC-OFTR Member

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    On earth, we are now in the midst of the SIXTH large extinction of life on the planet. And there is nothing anyone (including the tree huggers and Coke) can do about it. You can bitch and whine about diminishing polar bear habitat, but the truth is that this sort of thing is very common and very normal.

    The environment is constantly changing, you have to change as well to survive. I was walking my little dog in the park behind the house the other day, and we were being "stalked" by a coyotee. It turns out, there is a family of coyotees living next to the Self Storage place up the road. I have also noticed the number of rabbits (and stray cats) running around is much less.

    The lesson? Evolve or die. The coyotees have it figured out.
  2. koobly

    koobly ODSC-OFTR Member

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    I just wanted to take a minute to thank Dave for being such a good guy in this industry. I'm not going to call out other guys from other shops, but Dave was a gentleman and a man of his word.

    I wouldn't at all be surprised if Dave is taking money out of his pocket to compensate customers who ordered stuff right up to the end, that's just the kind of guy he is.

    Thanks Dave, All the Best
  3. MikeF

    MikeF ODSC-OFTR Member

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    I only met Dave once and on that day, he let me take his 690 Enduro demo bike for a spin. He seemed like a stand-up guy!
  4. ScottyR

    ScottyR Limited User

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    I wish Dave and his family the best of luck in his future endeavours. He is a stand up guy.

    I am sure it was a tough decision to close up shop. I was faced with a similar dillema when my dad sold our property to Loblaws. I was lucky. We did not go broke. We always made money at our shop and it was because of 1 reason. Our expenses were next to nothing. My place was anything but fancy but served its purpose.

    The more I crunched the numbers taking into consideration all the expenses that I would incur, staying in the bike biz did not make financial sense. There is no money selling dirt bikes, plain and simple. There is no one who loves talking dirt bikes with people than me, BUT, the market is too small and the margins are too thin. Selling a $9000 dirt bike and making $300 is pretty pathetic. I am not speaking for anyone else, but do you notice that shops like Apex, GP etc... are all getting into other brands and the dirt bike biz is becoming a smaller part of their business plan? They are doing this because they can make more money selling just about anything else. I honestly dont think there is going to be a dirt bike business in Southern Ontario the way that the land is being closed and liability that is involved with people riding on public land.

    I like a deal as much as anyone else, but before trying to save $20 buying a part online from the US or even someone across the country, try to remember the last time that that online guy bought your lunch at an OFTR trail ride or donated a door prize at the Cord. I needed some tires for my bike in the fall and yes, I could have saved a few bucks buying them online from a guy in Quebec, but I went over to Rob Langs and got them from him as he supports the sport. I was into Machine Racing and grabbed some stuff a few weeks ago that I know I could have bought a bit cheaper online but I remember that John is always there for off road riders in Ontario.

    The part that really scares me is as all dirt bikes get more and more complicated with electronics and the more and more shops close up, where is everyone going to take their fuel injected XCF/WRF/CRF 450 EFI to get a service code diagnosed? There will be a day sooner than later, where the avg guy will not be able to service his own bike other than oil changes.
  5. bkowal

    bkowal ODSC-OFTR Member

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    Its all about overhead costs.

    I dont think there ever was money in dirt bikes. Was the same story when I was a kid.

    Great idea if they have stuff in stock.

    Wrong. EFI is easy to fix, it tells you whats wrong (usually). Just a different way to do it. Many of the new bikes let you plug your PC right into them. The systems are much simplier than the a carb with low/high/cold circuits and jets and slides etc. Just have to get comfortable with a multi-meter.
  6. hammer

    hammer Limited User

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    You are very misinformed.
  7. Neil Edmunds

    Neil Edmunds ODSC Executive

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    I work on a lot of different automation controls. Each manufacturer has proprietary features in their product and it takes a lot of time to learn all the various hardware/software setups. Every device has different connectors and communication protocols. Even when the connectors match, they often have different pinouts. I have a big box of custom cables that I made just to be able to work with various systems. If a customer asks for something other than my component combination, he gets charged a LOT more to pay for all the related stuff. So far none have been willing to pay the upcharge for this further machine customization. The automotive/motorcycle world might have better standardization, but it's still a burden for a small operation like a bike shop to buy into the extra stuff needed to work with FI sytems. It gets worse if you need to support all brands to stay busy.

    While we are stuck with FI, I don't care for it at all. My current pickup operates just as crappy as the first fuel injected vehicle I had 25 years ago. The engineers just don't take the time to get it right. In reality, vehicles are just disposable consumer crap and anyone who thinks otherwise is fooling themselves.

    My hat goes off to the mechanics who have no choice but to struggle through issues from design flaws. It's like trying to work with one hand tied behind your back.
  8. Canadaler

    Canadaler ODSC-OFTR Member

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    To be even able to look at my Cannondale's FI mapping I had to pay $350 for the adapter cable and software. Yes, that was old (2004) technology, but as far as I know dealers themselves have to pay for the analytic equipment required for most of the new computer controlled bikes. I've been told some of that...which of course you can only buy from one source...is so expensive that a dealer (especially a dirt bike only dealer) could never even recoup the capital cost of that equipment through the profits he makes of bike sales.

    I guess you can add all that to the overhead costs of being in the bike shop business these days.
  9. bkowal

    bkowal ODSC-OFTR Member

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    Just because you don't know how to do it doesn't mean its hard.
    Diagnosing problems and remapping a ECU are two different things.

    A little story. My brother was a GM mechanic for years, but now works at the engine plant in St. Catharines blowing up engines in the dyno room. He was the goto guy for all the electrical/FI/computer problems for years. The local garages would give him the trouble cases since he had the equipment and the know-how to fix it. When I got my Grand Am, the standard "Check Engine" light came on, so I go to see him. He pulls out thousands of dollars worth of proprietary equipment, plug it into the OBDII port and have a look. Seemed it was a mis-fire, probably due to dirty injectors.

    The light came on again, but this time I decided to have a look myself. For $10 (with shippoing and taxes) I ordered a scanner from ebay with software that will allow me to plug it into my notebook computer. BTW, havn't had a look at it yet, too freakin cold outside. This stuff is not black magic or expensive anymore.

    Most bikes have fairly simple systems and should be easy to find the fault. I'm sure it won't be long before they also have an OBDII port in them.
  10. hammer

    hammer Limited User

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    Tech for 30 years
    Diesel and gas drivability tech for over 15 year so I have a rough idea about EFI.
  11. glorp

    glorp Limited User

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    Small example for you (I have been a dealer service advisor for over 25 years)
    Customer purchases iridium plugs, coil pack , pcv, injector cleaner because his buddy with a $50 OBDII scanner told him his check engine code P0300 (random misfire) means he needs a tune up
    $400 worth of parts, engine light still on, comes into service yelling at me about his defective vehicle.
    Agrees to a $60 diagnostic scan, with the dealerships $30,000 dollar scanner that can monitor just a little bit more than the handheld, intermittent voltage breakdown at cylinder #5, traced to a cracked spark plug boot, $14 dollar part.
    How many such repairs to pay for that dealer scanner ?
    Anyone can install tires, brakes, exhaust, but when you get to proper vehicle diagnostics, dealers have the tools. Yes, its not 100% of the time, but works more often than not.
  12. ScottyR

    ScottyR Limited User

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    FWIW, to change the IDLE on a Husky TR650, you need to use the $6000 BMW MOSS tool.
  13. M357.5

    M357.5 Limited User

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    I've been a tech since 92.

    It's one thing to scan for codes, any cheap scan tool will do. But to diagnose the fault you need the data provided by propper diagnostic equipment. I've seen guys replace a multitude of sensors etc hunting for the problem....spending money chasing an issue that was caused by MECHANICAL failures.

    I always hook up my own equipment, even if someone comes in with the code claiming to know what the fault is. It saves me time and money.
  14. clayfan

    clayfan Limited User

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    I have to agree with Scott, Hammer ,Neil and M 357.5

    We, as riders and drivers are demanding this tecnology (along with the EPA enforcing fleet MPG levels in the sates) that means EFI, tons of speacial tools to both diaganose and repair and adjust theses systems.

    Heck, a few years back a Chimpanzee with a cresent wrench could change your fork oil. Now its closer to a hospital operation to get them drained, cleaned, inspected for wear, filled, bled and back on the bike.

    Take BRP for example and their ETEC motors. Great technology and pretty reliable but you need their BUDDS system to get any infomation on a poor running sled. Good luck to you on a 5 day saddle bag trip in Northern Ontario. 1st you have to locate a Dealer from the trail your on, and you have to locate one that has somebody on staff that can use the BUDDS and diagnose, then, if your lucky, the Dealer will have some sort of sensor or electronic gizmo that will repair your problem and you can continue your trip. If not, then call the cab to get back to your truck and trailer because your trip is over.

    I'm not saying I'd like to go back to the days of leaky carbs, 10 miles to the gallon and smelling like your sled after 100miles but technology costs.

    In more ways than one.
  15. bkowal

    bkowal ODSC-OFTR Member

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    Interesting, but not going to be a problem anymore since the model is likely dead. BMW has been famous for expensive and quirky bikes.
    ETEC? Thats some pretty fancy and special high-tech stuff going on there, I can imagine special tools are required.
    Swapping parts to fix a fault? That has nothing to do with the technology or tools, that has to do with the guy working on it.

    The auto industry has standardized on the tech for the last +10 years, the bike guys should too if they know whats good for them.

    FI is here to stay, learn to love it.
    I am sure PB thought the Internet was no big deal either, just a passing fad right?
  16. AndrewS

    AndrewS Limited User

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    Don't speak too soon...

    Interview with Stefan Pierer, OWNER HUSQVARNA
    snip...
    How will you organize the sales force?It's all on the table, final decisions have not been taken. But one thing I can assure you: we will not sell through dealers Husqvarna KTM. Husqvarna will have their points of sale.
    What will change in the range?I would keep for good models 650 and Route. But Husqvarna also has a huge potential in the segment supermoto-Sport, I would see a good new model of this type. The Nuda 900 has not sold well, for me it is too far from the roots of the brand. He paid dearly for BMW super competence in the field of road. And with the experience of the KTM twins are convinced that a dealer would not be happy having to sell a similar model.
  17. Randy_K

    Randy_K Limited User

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    This thread has kinda gone sideways but i dump my $0.02 worth in.

    Although i do buy some things on line i prefer to shop at my local dealer. Small dealers seem to give more personal and IMHO better service. Years ago i found a good place to deal with. < now Langs Off Road >

    Short story,, I was given the mechanic's personal cell number and told to use it if i need to. Not to get price quotes , but if i'm stuck in the mountains of West Virginia with bike problems, don't hesitate to call for advice. I have been well looked after and will continue to support the shop.Price is important but after sale support is too. Just selling the bike or part is not always enough.

    Support those who support us. I wish Dave and all the Staff at Parker Brothers all the best in whatever they decide to do .

    Randy
  18. suprf1y

    suprf1y Limited User

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    EFI is in it's infancy in bikes like it was in cars 25 - 30 years ago. These days troubleshooting is pretty straightforward, and the systems typically work very well. Not only that, but now I can hook a laptop up to my late model Chev pickup, alter the torque management, and make changes to the fuel and timing tables for a decent increase in power. My summer car has a computer that was built from a kit for $300, has more capabilities than I will ever use, is tuneable by the same laptop, and timing and fuel are more accurate than anything we have in a bike right now. It's only a matter of time before we're doing that with our bikes. It's like anything else. It's scary if you don't understand it, but once you learn about it, it's not a big deal. Before long, all the guys who have no idea how to jet their bikes now will be able to make the same mistakes with a simple stroke on the keyboard :lol:
  19. hardman

    hardman ODSC-OFTR Member

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    Just thought I"d add my 2 cents worth.

    Sad to hear about Parker Brothers although I did not shop there living up in Orangeville.

    On another note the Kawasaki dealer in Orangeville "Warp 9 Sports" has also closed down last fall. I talked to the owner and he told me basically the same reason as Parker Brothers, everyone is buying over the internet.

    This is definitely an inconvenience for me as now the closet dealer is in either Guelph or Bradford.

    The mechanic at Warp 9 was just awesome! When I was doing work on my engine, he always went out of his way to help me with the issue and make sure I selected the proper parts.

    Very sorry to see them go. :(
  20. Smitty

    Smitty Limited User

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    Although it is sad for you, it's even worse for this great bike mechanic (and others) that are now unemployed. It's got to be tough to stay employed.