1. ODSC rides are planned with specific Covid-19 restrictions
  1. figur8t

    figur8t ODSC-OFTR Member

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    Good day All,

    I'm in need of advice/help. It seem to have found myself in a bit of trouble... after watering out my bike (2013 KTM 500exc) in a deep muddy water hole during the Rock Hound Rally and having to bail to the evacuation route after lunch, I suspect I now have an engine in need of a rebuild. During the rally a couple incredibly helpful gents (John aka Hans and a fellow living in my home town of Woodstock) helped me dump, clean and start the bike (allowing me to limp it back to the evac route 1-2 km) but my oil looked like milk... I still owe both of them many, many beers and dinner!

    Next day I dumped the oil and changed the oil (5 times), cleaned and replaced oil filters and air filter until no more evidence of debris and/or water. I took it out for a very short test ride down my road (less than a km) and all seemed good but then some smoke started to come from the air box and the engine bogged down and stalled. I gave it a couple minutes and it restarted with some difficulty but felt very "mushy" and when I pulled off the air filter there was a bit of oil in the air box. Now I'm no mechanic but I assume this suggests at least my piston rings are shot or worse :-(. So now the bike sits until I can get 1) proper diagnosis of the problem and 2) a treatment plan...

    Although I have only a little mechanical experience, I've always wanted to rebuild a motorcycle engine.. though ideally not the bike I'm riding and maybe something a little less "tuned" and more forgiving. I do have a number of neighbours and nephews who are all very mechanically inclined (cars, tractors etc.. but not motorcycles) that I could lean on a but I'm also considering keeping my mitts off it any having a professional take a look at it... so if anyone has suggestions of great motorcycle mechanics in ON who work on KTM's I'm all ears.

    I'd love to hear thoughts from others on this list... I'm so totally bummed as that was my first real "rally" experience and I absolutely loved it and hope to do many more!

    Thanks

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    Last edited: Aug 29, 2021
  2. dean.f

    dean.f ODSC-OFTR Member

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    To be honest, Id try taking it for a good run and see if she's really toast or not. If you are willing to roll the dice I'd pull the head and take a look. YouTube can show you the way I would imagine. If there's a real problem you'll see it right away. If not you'll be out the price of a head gasket.

    I'm curious where all that other crap came from. Is there a filter or screen on your crank case vent? Was this a used bike with unknown history? Was it running when it submerged sucking water into the intake?

    If you are confident in doing a bit of tinkering it's really not that bad, of you have the right information (service manual) beware of advice from the internet though
  3. figur8t

    figur8t ODSC-OFTR Member

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    Yeah the filter screen is from the crankcase and the bike is used but I've had it for 2 years, has always run great and performed multiple oil changes and the oil and screens have always been super clean. I do think the bike sucked muddy water (and it was super muddy) through the air intake/exhaust... and I probably didn't kill it quick enough hoping I was actually going to make it through :-(. I also noticed a "drain hole" in my air filter box that didn't seem to have any kind of plug or one way drain valve, not sure if that's normal or not. Another rider that was helping me mentioned that their bike had a rubber stopper/plug in their air filter box.

    I'm actually in the process of trying to get my hands on a service manual, as like you I'm not a fan of some of the stuff spewed on the internet and feel I really need to read through and understand before cracking into things.

    Appreciate your thoughts.
  4. Craig

    Craig ODSC-OFTR Member

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    Town:
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    If it were mine, I wouldn't run it. Top end work is fairly straight forward, but splitting the cases is another matter. I would pull the motor and have a shop do the work.
  5. Neil Edmunds

    Neil Edmunds ODSC Executive

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    With that much crud on the strainer you can bet a lot of very fine dirt particles have gone through the engine. Running it more will cause additional damage. As Craig says, pull the engine and take it to a shop that has the right tools to do a proper repair.
  6. dean.f

    dean.f ODSC-OFTR Member

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    I guess I'm more of a gambler than the rest of the crowd, like I said don't trust internet advice *even mine* the right answer is pull it and have it done.
  7. taylorericjohn

    taylorericjohn ODSC-OFTR Member

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    Doesn't look good! With the amount of crud on the screen I wouldn't be surprised if it has done some damage. I wouldn't hesitate to take it to Lang's. They have always been great to deal with.
    tenere700 likes this.
  8. figur8t

    figur8t ODSC-OFTR Member

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    Thanks for the feedback... and I agree it doesn't look good. I'm probably heading the way Craig mentions above as I feel similarly... and oddly enough my name is also Craig. And thanks to those that have PM me with names of people doing this kind of work. I'm heading out shortly for several weeks to ride to Vancouver (via the TCAT or country roads pending weather) but when I'm back I'll hopefully have time to start the work.

    Bummer though, as this really is some of the best weather for dirt riding.

    Cheers, Craig
    tenere700 likes this.
  9. Yota-Tom

    Yota-Tom Limited User

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    Eeek, the bit I circled in red looks like a chunk of metal from here. Maybe part of a timing chain guide? Lack of power could be from your timing chain being out a tooth or more. Def a no-go till the debris gets cleared out. In my opinion (not a professional mechanic, just a dude that’s torn broken motors apart) the motor has to come out and split apart....too many nooks and crannies to hold gunk and metal shavings. Flushing with diesel fuel may help slosh more gunk around and out, but a tear down would be best.
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    Did you find a shop, or get any conclusive results yet?
  10. swifterous

    swifterous Limited User

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    I recently also drowned my bike, (17 Yamaha TTR230 4t) in a shallow river of about 3 and a-half feet. However it was fresh water and no mud or sediment went into the air intake or exhaust when I went down.

    Water in the oil is not necessarily a big problem. As long as the oil is drained same day and in my case it took 9 oil changes to fully remove all the water from the case over the following 3 days. Constant oil changes and filter changes every 2-3 oil changes after idling (no actual in-gear riding) to circulate the 4-stroke oil around proved easier than I thought to do a whole rebuild. I recently rode it again and got it up to 6th gear with no bogs or delays.

    However in your case with a 4t KTM 500 I would definitely take that to Lang's or a shop to ensure that all the sediment, gunk and mud is removed from the case. Simply doing even 20 oil changes won't grab all of that sediment, goop and particulate out of the case in those hard to reach spots.
  11. letsgo

    letsgo Limited User

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    Limping it back prolly toasted it. Minimum $3500 topend (at dealer), plus likely bottom end drama $$. Sorry.